There is a very interesting blogpost and discussion going on over at Sara's blog.
Along with the issues concerning BM and WW, it seems that one of the obstacles BW have to deal with in terms of dating IR is the perception of being a WM's "fetish." BW are seemingly uncomfortable with non-black men admiring their bodies and the physical attributes that make us unique. It seems that BW would prefer that non-black men admire things outside of the physical first. Unfortunately, THAT'S NOT REALITY.
What I find interesting is that many BW are COMOFORTABLE with BM expressing blatant interest in their body parts (i.e. big round booties) but become offended when white men do the same. For many years, hip hop videos that celebrated this particular feature were heralded as videos that showed BW as being just as beautiful and sexy as WW- specifically for our unique physical shape. So why is it all of a sudden inappropriate for a WM to view a BW's physical assets as sexy and alluring?
I think a lot of it has to do with the history of relations between blacks and whites in the western world. For centuries BW had their sexuality and attractiveness used against them. BW often had (and in many ways still do have) very little control over how their sexuality and image is portrayed. Those scars are still fresh today. To this day many black parents caution their daughters to be wary of white men and their interest in BW- believing that their interests may only be prurient or based on curiosity. Therefore I can understand why many BW are put off by WM who express physical interest first.
BW are not accustomed to seeing ourselves as sexy without it being done in a degrading way. I think we associate sexiness with derogatory (Jezebel anyone); therefore, when a WM makes a comment about our physical shape we automatically assume that it's inappropriate. It's not that BW don't want to look attractive men, it's that we don't know how to own our attractiveness. This of course does not mean that it is acceptable for the man to be vulgar or inappropriate in his approach.
The reality is that men - ALL MEN- are visual creatures. The first thing he is going to notice about you is your BODY and not your BRAIN. Deal with it. Your body alone WON'T keep him interested- it's the whole package that will. Some WM who prefer BW, prefer the uniqueness of our physical attributes as opposed to those of WW, AW, HW, etc. I've had them tell me that.
Yeah, that fetish scare is played out in the bc, especially among black women. White and Asian and Hispanic women who are as fetishized as we are aren't complaining when someone likes them for their physical attributes.
A lot of what's going on here is fear. Scare tactics designed to keep BW in the box and uninterested in non-black men. I'm sure there are non-black men who fetishize BW. My question is if he can be a good man to you, does it really matter? An argument could me made that BM fetishize BW.
IMO it is true that white, Asian, and Hispanic women have gotten over the idea of being fetishized. They've either turned it into a power or learned to use it to their advantage. This is what we need to learn to do.
All of this leads me to one question: Do BW really want to enter into relationships? If so, then why are so many of us so uptighgt? Why do we seem to have so many hang-ups about men and relationships?
10 comments:
This is really a sad state of affairs to me. My parents never taught me to be wary of wm being attracted to me. I just do not remember that at all. However they did emphasize to me to check out their character.
I was eight years old when Dr. Martin Luther King was murdered. I remember how they used that incident to teach me about the things that he taught. The one thing I remember to this day that he said was that he longed for the day that we would be judged by the content of our character. I have held to that attitude in my relationships with people in general. I especially use that plumbline when dealing with men, no matter the race. I assume that I have enough sense to know when I'm dealing with a quality man or not. I definitely expect him to like how I look.
I also remember having chats with my father about how men love the female shape. I guess I understood even then that men will look at my body first. That just does not bother me at all. I never thought I would live to see the day where women were offended because a man likes their body. I'm doing all I can to get mine into better shape:) I get some attention at times but I still want to be closer to the weight I was when I was in my 20s (a few years ago). Let them admire.
There are enough hindrances in finding a good relationship. Rejecting men because they like the female body should not be one of them. I sincerely hope that those bw that have problems with wm liking their bodies can get past this. I'm glad this is not all bw.
As I said in your January 08 post, Zabeth - my hunch is that black women want to be thought of as sexy, attractive, etc - they just don't want men, particularly non-black men, to verbalize it. No doubt that the points you made in your post contribute to the stigma of sexual appeal.
I used to have the same mentality, and I'm so glad I changed how I think (over time - it certainly didn't happen overnight, lol). Being sexy doesn't equal being a slut or a whore - it's a natural outcome of being a woman comfortable in your own skin, methinks. If you've got the curves, I see nothing wrong with accentuating the positive (read: not advocating dental floss as bikinis, people) and having a man appreciate it. Honestly, I certainly appreciate the male physique, with no qualms about verbally expressing it to the man in my life. He should have the freedom to do the same without the pathology.
All that said, I understand why some of us think that way, and I know it's hard to break the cycle. When it's been sublimated into your psyche most of your life, no wonder black women cringe at the first indication that their skin or butt or lips are noticed by non-black men.
My choices are and have always been about what works for me and have nothing to do with what others are doing. My race does not define me nor is it the framework upon which my life and choices are built. It is one aspect of my reality. I am a person first, foremost and always and that is what drives my choices. I presume everyone else operates the same way but clearly such is not the case. People would be happier if they spent more time doing what works for them and not worrying about what others are doing, saying or thinking. Happy people are enjoying the moment and the blessing life brings and want others to do what it takes to be happy in their own right. Healthy people are not threatened by others happiness because they are too busy making and enjoying their own!
That being said - BW do want to be in relationships and like Sojourner said so many years ago be recognized as women - however collectively they have not established a relationship with themselves - that includes all aspects of what makes them a person - mental, emotional, spiritual, physical, psychological and sexual. BC especially but society as a whole fragments women into parts. Unless a woman refuses to be fragmented and creates her own concept of who she is based on her truth and what works for her - she is not going to feel or be whole and unless a person is whole they can't successfully relate to another as an equal. Being whole means owning your power to choose and the right to have those choices accepted and respected as non-negotiable and refusing to let others define you. When you define yourself on your own terms - it does not matter what the media says and folks can and will come out of their mouths with all manner of stupid and that does not change a thing. Why? Because externals do not define who you are as a whole person. A whole person knows what works for them, what they want and that they have the power and are holding the high cards and can always say no and make choices - because their worth, their reality are not based on or shaped by forces outside them. Refuse to accept delivery of what others want to impose. It comes down to trusting their own judgment and assessment of their value and worth and ability to care for and make choices in their own best interests.
V/r
Clarice
I totally agree with the previous comments. What works for each individual is all that should matter. What other people think should be a non-issue. I hope that others are able to get past trying to be what others think they should be and just be themselves. Life is a lot easier when you live like that. I am really enjoying my life these days.
The dating landscape is tough for ALL women. Therefore, I think a smart woman should use all the "weapons" in her arsenal. This doesn't mean standing on the corner shouting "toot-toot, hey-beep--beep" --LOL...Donna Summer reference. Anyhoo...the point is you can use your "assets/weapons" without degrading yourself or looking/acting "cheap."
To the "winner" go the spoils.
I agree, Miss Pinky.
You are so right. Men are visual creatures. The fetish fear is due to the negative thinking, "oh great here's another group of men who are OK with treating me like a sex object". However, it's not always like that. The problem is BW are not in touch with our feminine mystique. It has been bred out of us. Our foremothers had to keep us safe from predators so we were taught to focus on work & education and not being noticed by men except for very explicit ways. We exist only as the single, hard-working independent black woman or the black woman who uses raw sexuality to get ahead.
Other women have the benefit of men as protectors so they learn what it takes to get a man who will provide. Who teaches a fatherless woman how to have a healthy relationship with a man? it's a question I've struggled with for years. How can you have something that you've never experience? I'm lucky I grew up in a family where race would not be an issue as long as the man respects me, it's OK. I've learned alittle about the fine arts of seduction and flirting from AW, WW, HW. They know when to talk and when to be silent. men need to feel in control even if when they are not. An Indian woman told me, "men wear the pants, but we control the zipper". Smile more at cute strangers. Embrace your feminine side. You will be happy you did.
Uhm... I never really see this shame at being fetishized in my community. Maybe I just kinda think it's normal. In a multiucultural world people end up with all sorts of fetishes, idiosyncracies, and orientations. IF someone says, "You have such pretty dark skin," I don't really care. Whether it's a black or non-black person. Also, maybe living in a working class multicultural community one doesn't really see this issue. I've seen the flip thing though: white girls who say black women don't look good when they relax their hair or white girls who think that long hair is their asset and black women shouldn't be doing it.
My family taught me to be open minded. It is me who is keeping myself from dating wm. Yes men are visual but there has got to be something other than my ass ( I don't have a big one btw). If he likes my eyes my smile then fine.
Nice jeans that show the curve of her butt $40-
A cup of coffee $2-
A smile $0-
Finding out she is a sweet and wonderful person; Priceless!
Point is It is all about what catches the eye, that starts the whole machine in motion, but its what you have to say that makes it all worth doing.
Life is about love, love is always worth the risk.
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